40 Amp Circuit Breaker Metal Case vs. Nylon/Plastic Case (Photos) | Victory Motorcycles: Motorcycle Forums

40 Amp Circuit Breaker Metal Case vs. Nylon/Plastic Case (Photos)

Discussion in 'Victory General Discussion' started by RedVic, Nov 3, 2014.

  1. RedVic

    RedVic Well-Known Member

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    I received my nylon/plastic Cooper Bussmann 40 Amp circuit breakers today.

    I now have the proper IP66 certified against Dust and Water intrusion plus Vibration resistant circuit breaker back in my Cross Country Tour.

    Victory is using a Cooper Bussmann brand circuit breaker. I also took apart the metal Cooper Bussmann 40 Amp circuit breaker I had in the bike to compare them.

    The nylon/plastic Cooper Bussmann circuit breaker is a sealed unit. There is a bead of sealer that holds the circuit breaker in the case as well as sealing the circuit breaker to meet the IP66 certification. The mounting tab is part of the molded case eliminating the chance of the mounting tab failing due to vibration.

    The metal case Cooper Bussmann circuit breaker has no sealing and is held in the metal case by four crimps on the metal case. There is no sealant between the circuit breaker and the metal case so it will not protect against dust or water intrusion.

    The metal case uses three small spot welds to hold the mounting tab on. Vibration could lead to the failure of the spot welds which would result in the circuit breaker not being securely mounted and could lead to it shorting out against the side of the battery tray.

    The circuit breakers are identical using a TRUFLEX flat blade metal tab as the thermo breaker if 40 Amps were exceeded. The only difference between these circuit breakers is the material the case is made out of, the mounting tab and the lack of the IP66 certification on the metal case circuit breaker.

    Contrary to what some have alleged the OEM circuit breaker is not a cheap junk part. It is a Cooper Bussmann 40 Amp circuit breaker using the nylon/plastic case that meets the IP66 certification for dust intrusion, water jet resistant from all angles and is vibration resistant.

    The metal case circuit breakers that are being used to replace the OEM circuit breakers do not meet the IP66 certification so they are not certified against dust intrusion or water intrusion and are not vibration resistant.

    The circuit breaker it self is identical in both the metal case and the nylon/plastic case. The only difference is the superior IP66 certification of the nylon/plastic case.

    There should be no fears of the OEM 40 AMP circuit breakers as they are in fact a quality part.

    I took some photos of the circuit breakers.

    40A circuit breaker 003.JPG
    The metal circuit breaker is on the left, the OEM circuit breaker is in the middle and the new OEM style on the right. All three are Cooper Bussmann circuit breakers.
    40A circuit breaker 005.JPG
    Metal case breaker on the left OEM nylon/plastic on the right. Both are TRUFLEX flat blade metal.

    40A circuit breaker 006.JPG
    Metal case breaker on left Nylon/Plastic case on the right. Both use the same contacts. No difference.

    40A circuit breaker 008.JPG
    This is the inside of the metal case circuit breaker showing the three spot welds that hold the mounting tab on. If these spot welds break loose the breaker will no longer be securely mounted and could lead to shorting out and burning up the wiring harness and even burn the bike to the ground. If one spot weld fails the others will take on added vibration and will lead to their failure.
     
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  2. vision_nut

    vision_nut Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    so witch is better? They have been making the metal case ones for 50 some years with a small fail rate
     
  3. Oldman47

    Oldman47 Well-Known Member

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    I think that Red Vic's point is that the metal case ones are not water proof or dust proof so they will fail more often than the metal case ones on a bike. In a cage the environment is very different. If mounted in a dry environment inside your cage the metal ones will do just fine, as vision_nut said. Mine is not in a closed environment like it would be in my cage so I want the one that can withstand a rain storm or a drive down a gravel road. For a bike, the plastic one seems to be better.
     
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  4. 1stVictory

    1stVictory Well-Known Member

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    I'm satisfied that the metal case one I installed, and sealed with epoxy glue, is more than satisfactory. Time to step off the soapbox.
     
  5. Oldman47

    Oldman47 Well-Known Member

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    WTF soap box? Did you read and consider what RedVic posted or are you falling back on "tried and true" solutions to a non-problem? I don't know the answers to most subjects but I do know how to evaluate what I read. As presented by RedVic, the plastic cased breaker is superior in our specific application.
     
  6. RedVic

    RedVic Well-Known Member

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    Both circuit breakers are the same it is the case that is the deciding factor for the environment it is used in. Oldman47 has it correct, for our applications the correct breaker would be the nylon/plastic case breaker that is IP66 certified. There is no quality difference in the working part of the circuit breakers.

    Circuit breakers do fail and they are readily available in auto parts stores. The problem with your local auto part store is they will only have the metal case circuit breaker in stock. I mailed ordered mine but had to buy three of them. They are cheap enough so it was no big deal. The Victory circuit breaker has gotten an unfair bad rap with many calling them cheap quality when that is not the truth. They are a Cooper Bussmann circuit breaker and the quality is fine.

    In the Notaharley thread about the circuit breaker issues he had he was convinced that the nylon/plastic OEM circuit breaker was a cheap junk part and he went and bought a metal case NAPA circuit breaker thinking that because it had a metal case that it was a superior better made part. That is not true, there is a reason for the nylon/plastic cases and that is to seal them so they pass the different IP standards. In our case the IP66 standard/certification is the correct 40 amp circuit breaker to use because of the location and exposure to the elements. The IP67 and IP68 certifications allow not only protection from dust intrusion but also can be submerged under liquid to a certain depth for a certain amount of time before they are subject to failure.

    What has happened is Notaharley did get a faulty circuit breaker, it happens with mass produced parts, but the criticism if the OEM nylon/plastic circuit breaker in the Notaharley thread caused a lot of people to go out and remove the sealed circuit breaker and replace them with a metal case circuit breaker that is not IP66 certified. Both are good quality circuit breakers, but only the nylon/plastic ones carry the IP66 certification in the 40 amp circuit breakers. A lot of people made the wrong assumption that because the case was nylon/plastic that it was a cheap junk circuit breaker when in fact it is a Cooper Bussmann circuit breaker.

    Some have tried to seal the metal circuit breakers with epoxy or silicon but there is no guarantee that the silicon or epoxy will properly seal the breaker as it would require prepping the metal case and the plastic top of the circuit breakers which I bet most have not done. Silicon or epoxy needs a properly prepped surface to adhere to or it will not seal well. If it was easy to seal the metal case circuit breakers I am sure the manufacture would have done it but they don't. Then you have the issues of vibration resistance and the spot welds possibly failing leaving the metal case circuit breaker unsecure.

    Look the choice is yours, you can put in the metal case circuit breaker and hope you never have any problems with it or you can put in the correct spec nylon/plastic case circuit breaker that is IP66 certified.

    My contention is why take such a risk over a part that only costs a few dollars by putting in a non IP66 certified circuit breaker.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2014
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  7. RedVic

    RedVic Well-Known Member

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    Here are two photos of the two circuit breaker cases.

    40 Amp circuit breaker 001.JPG
    Look at the nylon/plastic case, see the line of sealant? I had to break the circuit breaker case to get the nylon/plastic case circuit breaker out of the case it was sealed so good. 40A circuit breaker 007.JPG
    Notice in the inside of the metal case there is no sealer and the circuit breaker was easy to remove by just bending the case on one side and the circuit breaker came right out.
     
  8. RedVic

    RedVic Well-Known Member

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    Here is a link about how these circuit breakers work and take notice of the note about vibration resistance.

    https://www.elecdirect.com/Data/ProductPDFs/41-42tp.pdf

    NOTES: PLASTIC VS METAL
    VIBRATION…Plastic housings with mounting brackets are one
    piece molded and are less prone to vibration. Metal housings with
    brackets are two piece designs. The bracket is attached by spot
    welding and can be loosened by vibration.

    SHORTING OUT…If a wire should loosen from a terminal on a
    plastic housing version, it will not short out against the housing as it
    may do with a metal housing.

    WEIGHT…The plastic housing is also lighter than the metal
    housing.

    NOTES: 24V VS 12V CIRCUIT BREAKERS
    A 24V Circuit Breaker may be used in a 12V application because of
    the thermal metals used in assembly. However a 12V Circuit Breaker
    in not recommended for 24V since the materials are Heat
    affected…not current affected.
     
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  9. Creek_IP

    Creek_IP Well-Known Member

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    Good info. Thanks for the research. Contrary to many folks belief, plastic does not always equal junk or cheap.
     
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  10. slickvic

    slickvic Well-Known Member

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    I have the NAPA metal breaker in my bag for roadside assistance . Im sure it will get me home. I have taken the precaution to wrap the seam with high quality duct tape to help seal out moisture and dust.

    Oh..... I know this is an old thread. Just bored and had nothing to do.
     
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  11. Micg1313

    Micg1313 Active Member

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    Cheap insurance Battery Protector/sealer spray on all terminals .
    It's hard to wash off
     

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  12. 1stVictory

    1stVictory Well-Known Member

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    If you haven't changed it out as yet, I strongly suggest you change it out now. It's not a side-of-the-road repair. Remove the duct tape and seal the case with 5 minute epoxy then do the replacement in the confines of quiet garage taking your time. Doing it on the shoulder of a 70-80 mph interstate or narrow shoulder 2 lane would be downright dangerous. Add rain and you get an even better picture. Part of your toolkit should also include an AAA membership( that includes bike towing), a cell phone and high limit credit card!
     
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  13. slickvic

    slickvic Well-Known Member

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    I thought about just changing it but it isn't broken. I just have it in the bag with my Save ur ride cable, tire repair kit and tool bag including correct sockets and wrenches for removing the forged bars and all the other crap in the way. Is there a reason to prematurely change it ? Do they wear out ?
     
  14. 1stVictory

    1stVictory Well-Known Member

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    They don't wear out but "may" fail. You can have all the tools you need in the saddlebag should it strand you but when I replaced mine, in a word, it was a "b-tch" of a job. And that was in my garage, not on the side of the road. Just replace it and be done with it.
     
  15. vision_nut

    vision_nut Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    what more interesting was the heat factor. We all know down there it has to be well over 100 degrees so that might be a big factor of failure
     

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