2009 Vision - No Start | Victory Motorcycles: Motorcycle Forums

2009 Vision - No Start

Discussion in 'Victory Vision' started by Pauljp, May 4, 2020.

  1. Pauljp

    Pauljp Well-Known Member

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    For the last few days through email I have been trying to help a fellow Victory rider in New York State troubleshoot his 2009 Vision Premium Tour.
    He does not have any type of power commander installed but does have a variable timing wheel and Victory stage 1 or 2 installed.
    There has been no other modifications done to the bike in years.

    The problem: It won't start. There is no spark at all on either plugs.

    Everything else is fine. Fuel pump primes, all lights and indicators are working and the starter turns the motor easily. There is just no spark.

    One of the steps from the ignition flow chart in the service manual says to disconnect the 3 wire connector from the coil and put a volt meter to the center pin.
    Turn on the ignition and switch to RUN, for 2-3 seconds while pump is priming you should see battery voltage on the center pin - which we do see.
    Then it says you should see battery voltage there while cranking the motor - which we DO NOT see.
    This is where I think the problem is. If there is no power getting to the primary coil during cranking then there can be no power from the secondary coil to the plugs.

    The flow chart says that you should have battery voltage on the center pin when priming, when cranking, and when running.

    We have checked every fuse in the 2 boxes. We have swapped relays with others. We have done an AC and resistance test of the Crankshaft Position Sensor.
    We have metered the CPS directly from the ECU and all looks good. There simply is no power to the coil during engine cranking.

    I have worked many times on a Cross Country Tour but never on a Vision, but I assume that the motor workings are the same on both bikes.

    Does anyone have any idea where else I could look to fix this?
    Is there a secret fuse somewhere or something that could cause this.
    Why would I have power to the coil during pump priming but not there during engine cranking?

    Any info that you can share is greatly appreciated.

    Thank you
    Paul
     
  2. BrotherWind

    BrotherWind Well-Known Member

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    Just a basic thought but could it be under load the battery can't deliver enough power to coil? Strange indeed.
     
  3. Burg_rider

    Burg_rider New Member

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    Following.
     
  4. ByteN2it

    ByteN2it Well-Known Member

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    Main circuit breaker?
     
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  5. Pauljp

    Pauljp Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so, everything else works.
     
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  6. Pauljp

    Pauljp Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking if the battery can power everything else on the bike including turning the motor over then it should have enough to power the coil. But I will ask him to charge the battery and check the connectors. Thanks.
     
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  7. lou8700

    lou8700 Well-Known Member

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    Times like these are when a spare ecm to swap would come in handy.
     
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  8. tyrfryr

    tyrfryr Well-Known Member

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    Looks like the ECU wants to see a CPS signal before powering up the coil. Hook your ohm meter to ground and one of the outer wires on your three pin connector, crank the engine, you should get a on/off reading on both, if not, I would check the CPS and circuits real close. Good luck.
    Think you could use a test light hooked to battery + and outer wires and check for flashing light while cranking instead of ohm meter. I'm thinking crank sensor or pinched wire.
     
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  9. Pauljp

    Pauljp Well-Known Member

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    I thought I was the only one who would have thought about using the test light in this fashion. That is exactly what we did and we did not get any signal from the outside pins of the coil connector. Meaning the ECU is not sending a fire signal to the coil.
    I am glad you think outside the box like I do @tyrfryr. Absolutely brilliant.
    So as far as I am concerned everything points to the CPS, but we tested for resistance and AC voltage and we are getting both.
    But I don't see anything else it can be. I think the next step is to open the cam cover and inspect the CPS and ultimately change it.
    I hate to tell him to do all that and it still not work.
    Thanks for your comment on this.
     
  10. Pauljp

    Pauljp Well-Known Member

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    Well I duplicated the symptoms using my own 2014 Cross Country Tour with success.
    I disconnected my Crankshaft Position Sensor and metered the center conductor of the ignition coil connector.
    I had 12 vdc during fuel pump priming but no voltage during engine cranking. I also had no ground fire pulses from the 2 outside wires.
    This is exactly the case that my buddy is having on his Vision.
    Once I plugged in the CPS everything ran perfectly. My CPS metered 277.1 ohms and 1.6 vac while cranking the motor with the spark plugs installed.
    This is exactly the same readings that my buddy is getting.
    So on one hand, the symptoms show the CPS is faulty, while the testing of it shows it to be good.
    I have asked him to check the CPS directly from the ECM connector rather than at the CPS connector itself. Perhaps there is a wiring problem between the CPS and the ECM.
    Thoughts?
     
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  11. Ghostrider25

    Ghostrider25 Lone Rider of the Apocolypse

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    A valid thought. If he doesn't get it at the ECM side he can chase it to the sensor.
     
  12. tyrfryr

    tyrfryr Well-Known Member

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    Any luck on this no start, no spark? You said the resistance check of the crank sensor was ok, but did you check if it was shorted (grounded)? If one of the wires is cut and touching the case it could ohm out ok but not send a signal to the controller.
     
  13. Pauljp

    Pauljp Well-Known Member

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    He ordered a new Crankshaft Position Sensor, it should be here any day now. Said it is shipping from Ohio. Probably from WitchDoctors.
    Hopefully that will fix the bike, if not the only other thing it can be is the ECM, yikes. Can you think of anything else if it isn't the sensor?
    I will let you know what happens.
     
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  14. BrotherWind

    BrotherWind Well-Known Member

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    Happen to just come across this on eBay this morning. IDK If it helps or what kind of deal it really is but.... It's off a 2014 Vision tour it's located under used VV parts. Hopefully the new sensor will solve his problem. Good luck.
    Screenshot_20200513-070251.png
     
  15. Pauljp

    Pauljp Well-Known Member

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    Good news !!!

    He just told me that he put in the new sensor and the bike fired right up.
    He sent me this picture of his old one. Even though it tested good, you can definitely see the damage on the wiring.
    I am not real familiar with the Vision layout, but it looks like the rubber that he is holding is where it leaves the crankcase so I would think the wire damage was caused by the front belt sprocket. Correct me if I am wrong?!?
    This was a tricky one to troubleshoot because the CPS tested good and that is what kept throwing us off our troubleshooting path.
    Everything points to it, but it tests good. I hate when that happens. Lol.
    Anyway, I was glad when he told me that all is well again. Nothing worse than having your baby stuck in the garage on nice riding days.
    Thank you everyone one for all the help on this. We both appreciate it.
    .
    Victory - Stephen broken CPS.jpg
     
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