The author is not buying what Polaris is selling. He doubts just about all their claims of innovation....and he doubts their committment to motorcycles in general.
If you read between the lines, he doubts the intelligence at Polaris.
There is no doubt that we have excellent motorcycles. There is no doubt poor management destroyed Victory. Too bad.
Polaris is irrelevant, they were never great at servicing any way. So in my opinion it was a false sense of security. There are other avenues for service. There is not much ground breaking about the Victory line. There is so much you can do on your own and better. But there is a point when you need a good mechanic to solve a problem. I would think a competent mechanic can work on any brand. But 90% of the time I have solved the problem from help on this site or from information by calling one of the big 3 Vic guys. For me the closest one is Lloydz and my dealer has been pretty good.
A while back someone had mentioned that Polaris is releasing a couple of new Indian models in February of 2017 (very hush hush). Come to find out the new models are just variations of the Chieftain. Polaris is doing EXACTLY the same thing with Indian as they did with Victory.
Indian has already been exposed as a recall liability (sump issues what). With Polaris's profit down the last few years, coupled with the recall, they have NO MONEY to re-invest in R&D, design, and/or marketing. Remember, in the future when you find yourself saying "Where is all the marketing for Indian?" it's paying for all of the recalls and the new photos of a Chieftain with a 21" wheel.
And don't forget that they just jumped head first into the off-road / Jeep parts business, which is further tapping into their cash and taking their focus away from everything and everyone else, including Indian. Is this Wine's shiney new pet? When you spend over 600 million bucks, one might guess that. With everything that they are dealing with right now and trying to right a ship that is literally burning this was an idiotic move to make, unless the endgame is a gradual transition out of the motorcycle business altogether. Speculative, I know, but it's something to be watched.
Polaris is irrelevant, they were never great at servicing any way. So in my opinion it was a false sense of security. There are other avenues for service. There is not much ground breaking about the Victory line. There is so much you can do on your own and better. But there is a point when you need a good mechanic to solve a problem. I would think a competent mechanic can work on any brand. But 90% of the time I have solved the problem from help on this site or from information by calling one of the big 3 Vic guys. For me the closest one is Lloydz and my dealer has been pretty good.
I was listening to a podcast last night and they were talking about the demise of Victory, the state of Polaris as well as the state of the industry in general. This was hosted by an online moto rag, the 2 hosts are basically sportbike guys but one of them is a moto journalist with some cred, so it was interesting to get their take on what happened from an outsider's perspective.
They did of course miss some critical points in the whole sorted mess, as one who is not connected to the segment would. But even they had serious questions about the wisdom and motivation of the decision. On the one hand they understood the business decision to do it, based on the fuzzy logic of "missed sales goals", but they acknowledged that Polaris seemed to be floundering around, do not seem to have a solid course and as a result consumer confidence is hurting. Lack of CRM was also identified as another achilles heel for Polaris. Of course we would know nothing about that, right?
Bottom line, even the industry is questioning Polaris' commitment to the Motorcycle business.
I highly doubt Polaris will be a Leader in any Motorcycle World! Their only passion is money! Which is okay in big business, not so good when trying to market a dream / lifestyle / idea! No one says that the Motorcycle world has to be a charity - companies need to make money ( bottom line)! However, as most successful companies understand it that it requires a real understanding of what their customer base wants / needs and cannot live without! Polaris just plain gave up on Victory because they focused on other ventures that might make a quick buck! They tossed money foolishly - mostly the Look at us stuff - instead of putting it back into R & D for the line. This will be the last Polaris product I purchase, I cannot in good faith put any trust into them or their business mantra!
On the purchase of the Jeep parts business...My late brother was an accounting executive for Transamerican Auto Parts (which Polaris just acquired), and I know for fact that the Jeep aftermarket is huge and growing...unlike the motorcycle business. Polaris sees this as a great opporyunity to diversify, hard as it is for us to understand.
No disagreement. You are absolutely correct, they are trying to diversify. No different from trying to diversify with stocks. You don't commit to anyone stock in case it fails, you still have other stocks that can make you money. And when you diversify you invest less into all the different stocks, which in turn generates a smaller return from each stock. And you simply hope that as a whole you make some money.
Polaris is a company holding group. They hold the company (stock) as long as there is a return from their small investment. Not enough return from Vic, got rid of the stock. Indian will need to also generate a return with a small investment. Let's see what happens.
To me the "hard-core" R & D was already done at Victory with the unveiling of the Vision and X-bike line.....they just needed refinement to keep them relative with offerings from other manufacturers.
Polaris is a powersports company. Don't tnink for a second that they could rely on Victory as their B&B. We had a good run and it didn't workout. Indian is the only competition for Harley. They bought it invested a lot into it and now they have to make it work. Its what people want. Let's face it Harley is what it is. Indian also. Victory was a great alternative and Polaris failed it miserably. Be nice if we can just count ourselves as the lucky ones and move on. Enjoy our Vic's and support those that deserve our support. We're gonna be around for a long time so let's get back to the VOG.
Personally I'm over Polaris and Corporate America in general. I trust No one. I got the best bike so I'm going to keep it going no matter what. Polaris didn't design it or build it. People with vision and passion did and they are let down more than us. It was their life. Let's hope those same people have a job now even if its behind Indian doors. Maybe something good will come out of that brand.
By the way I was never a Polaris fan of anything. I was a Victory fan and I'm a fan of American Motorcycles and it's heritage. I will show no loyalty any longer to a corporate name. I will choose a product that meets my expectations of how it was designed and built.
I respectfully disagree that Victory was a distraction although your comment is funny and some what true.
Think back to when Arlen Ness was involved. The Vision. The Cross bikes.
Back to the Vegas theme bikes. It was a time that fat tire bikes, custom paint jobs and choppers were all the craze.
Then came the baggers and the tourers. Victory had the balls and the Vision to be different and not copy Harley. Big wheel front ends. Stereos and big horse power twins. It's still going on for some and Harley is the reigning champion.
Indian is the new Polaris baby. I just wish instead of sweeping Victory under the carpet that they would put it up for adoption.
Polaris pissed away the small amount of actual heritage they had built on the Victory brand and goin' all in on heritage/nostalgia/brand recognition that they purchased. How much growth is actually possible in the retro bike world? How long before the market is saturated with 30K swoopy fender bikes? Should be interesting to follow over the coming years.
To me what killed Victory was the Scout (yes the rip-off of Victory) and the purchase of Indian itself. It proved to Polaris that a water cooled V-Twin will work in the American Cruiser market. To me at that point the Octane was "here's your last hoo-ra Victory". Rest assured that the quality of Victory was known industry wide which Indian took full advantage of. But will they learn not everyone wants fenders that big on their bikes or a water-cooled engine. Will they care? Or is Indian exactly what they dreamed of in 1999? Get into a niche' (over priced motorcycle) with a quality product, alibi limited in offerings, making the company just a couple of millions in profit each year but staying in the "game" just in case. I think not.
Imagine this ......... The unveiling taking place for the first faring Indian. The Chieftain ! Next to it they would have that beautiful 2015 X1 sitting there in all it's glory. The announcement would read something like this ......
Ladies and gentlemen, Polaris has brought to you in the last 15 years the best in modern performance motorcycles like this beautiful Magnum X1..... now we would like to introduce
For you nostalgia riders The best in classic design and the first Indian to sport a fairing and sound system.
Both bikes under the spotlight together. Both brands always promoted together always offering a choice.
Remember the slogan Polaris used when Indian was first introduced ?
"America now has a choice in American motorcycling" !
Well now they really don't. It's like saying do you want a Buick or an Oldsmobile ?
@slickvic WERD! Actually, it's like saying "Do you want an Oldsmobile or... an Oldsmobile! They are all the same. Lipstick on a Pig, my friend. Lipstick on a Pig.
I can only imagine what the employees are thinking. The board members are part of the deciscion making process. Maybe none of them have the balls to stand up to this guy so they just go along with his bright ideas.
I would imagine anyone actually working at Vic is pretty bummed and pretty pissed right now. There was a lot of heart and soul put in these bikes and that came from a lot of very dedicated individuals. I know if I had been part of the Vic team I wouldn't be thrilled about 'taking' a job offer at Indian.. .Polaris sold them up the river even more so than us.
What really sucks is the way they shut it down. I wouldn't wonder that someone might be willing to take over Victory and keep the brand going if Polaris actually sold it off.. instead they did like HD did with Buell and shuttered the brand, retaining the IP. Victory was successful even with mismanagement.. with a dedicated leadership to making it succeed I'm sure it would take off and dwarf whatever Indian was going to do. I say 'was'.. because if Polaris has this mindset about their lines, then it won't be long before Indian is seen as a boat anchor too and away it goes as well.
I would imagine anyone actually working at Vic is pretty bummed and pretty pissed right now. There was a lot of heart and soul put in these bikes and that came from a lot of very dedicated individuals. I know if I had been part of the Vic team I wouldn't be thrilled about 'taking' a job offer at Indian.. .Polaris sold them up the river even more so than us.
What really sucks is the way they shut it down. I wouldn't wonder that someone might be willing to take over Victory and keep the brand going if Polaris actually sold it off.. instead they did like HD did with Buell and shuttered the brand, retaining the IP. Victory was successful even with mismanagement.. with a dedicated leadership to making it succeed I'm sure it would take off and dwarf whatever Indian was going to do. I say 'was'.. because if Polaris has this mindset about their lines, then it won't be long before Indian is seen as a boat anchor too and away it goes as well.
If Polaris stands by their decision to deny the major design flaw in the oil pump and placement of it in their new version of the Indians and thereby sticking the consumers like they did with the early Victory's (here's a link to what they did to the early Vic buyers that, I believe ultimately was the cause of Vics poor sales = this quoted from the link = Polaris did not correct the transmissions in the 1999 and 2000 models and to date has not supported the owners of those bikes by replacing an apparently faulty design. Iron Pony: Victory Motorcycles, American-Made
If Polaris stays that course with their Indian consumers, then yea,,, those Polariis Indians will more likely then not end up being boat anchors too....
For a fact my friend,, for a fact!!! Got a friend riding 2015 Indian - we nick named the bike "clacky" cause WOW is it noisy!! Rep from Polaris took a listen to it - said he couldnt hear it even though the Indian mechanic standing next to him said "wow - that is definitely not right and should have the oil pump looked at).
I can't even fathom dropping $25k+ on a bike that has a known "defect" that the manufacturer chooses to dismiss as normal and not detrimental. How embarrassing for the owner to be riding up on a clacking premium bike and have to explain that Polaris got my money and has now forgotten who I am.....sound familiar?
THAT is hilarious Ghost - LOL!!!
My friends only "clacks" between 2200 and 3 grand - we always tease em about the next generation of Polaris Indian coming with this note in the official Polaris Owners Manual = rider should avoid operating motorcycle between 2 and 3 thousand rpm's. Doing so will void drive train warranty and may cause embarrassment if riding with friends with non-custom pipes..
What are friends for eay LOL
WHAT!? That's the entire power range on a ts111. That's insane. I would be beyond pissed. Especially if that p.o.s. Told me to my face he didn't hear anything. Wtf man.
To be fair Polaris doesn't have a corner on manufacturing defects....nor in handling it badly. Recalls cost money.. so do lawsuits. They're always gonna try to tread the path that makes them the most money while exposing themselves to the least liability. Look at HD and the gumby frames they sold on their bikes for several years.. it's not like they recalled all of them and put a new frame under them. Victory did have a 'repair' for the early bikes.. although they only partially comped buyers that needed it and they never did come right out and call it a 'defect' and covered by warranty.
When I made the comment about Indian becoming an anchor I was referencing the fact that if they didn't effectively improve and market the bike very soon it wasn't going to make them any more money than Victory did and if they follow their previous history.. bye bye Indian. Polaris isn't vested in either Victory or Indian other than as a money making venture.. so it's continued existence is at the whim of a board of directors and the stockholders.
Thanks mag. I owe you one. I had to grab the paper bag to breathe into. Seriously though. That is total garbage and this should be more widely known. No way I would drop that kind of money for what may or may not be a clacker.
I checked and couldn't find anything on the web related to and Indian oil pump issue. Have I failed in my search, or is this some new revelation? What is the story? Lifter issues, large push rod tollerances, or ??
OK, thanks, nice read. I spotted another potential issue. The POG! This was a huge issue on Kawasaki 1500 Vulcan engines in 1999. In 2000 they replaced the Plastic Oil Gear with a metal one and never had another problem. The POG's were failing at a steady rate and would almost certainly fail eventually.
I don't think so.....If oiling is in any way questionalble, then I'm out.....Never to return.
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