ECM tune vs. PCV, or any other outboard tuning devics.

Discussion in 'Victory General Discussion' started by Jeb27, Mar 9, 2017.

  1. Jeb27

    Jeb27 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding ECM tuning. I want to see a full Dynotuned chart next to the PCV tuned chart, with the same mods, before I'm convinced. As far as I'm concerned, the ECM full tuning is still in the experimental stage? I don't deny that it may be more effective, I just want proof. It's prudent to remember, that if it is in fact better it will put all outboard tuner sales, and maybe their respective companies, out of business completely; that's pretty intense? I would think all of the Dyno tuning gurus would have jumped on this immediately, as they could earn similar income without the overhead of purchasing a third-party device? I would have expected them to have posted this on their websites as a new service to be offered, as of yet I have not seen this? I'm sure I'm going to be ripped a new one with this statement...go for it all you "Oracles" of the vognet...what say you? :D
     
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  2. SPEEDFREAK

    SPEEDFREAK Well-Known Member

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    I have been told that after a while the ECM and the PC will start fighting each other don't know why, just what I was told from a self proclaimed GURU here in MI,, Vic, Indian dealer tuner... that is all I know so I have no answers if you have more questions...
     
  3. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Well-Known Member

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    I agree @Jeb27 , show me the proof. I have only done exhaust, O2's and timing wheel so for as I am waiting to get more info on this. I can see the logic behind the ECM tune, but the PCV/tune is a proven route.
    Hell why get into a hurry now as I have the last new Vic I will probably ever own, and I want to do it all correct the first time.
     
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  4. Jeb27

    Jeb27 Well-Known Member

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    By "fighting each other" do you mean the 2 programs, at the same, time on one bike, or the business aspect?
     
  5. OdentonVision

    OdentonVision Active Member

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    I'm curious as to how the ECM tune came about. Was someone able to hack into the ECM? And is that "someone" selling the hack? I thought the 106 ECM was locked down pretty tight.... I realize that Lloyd's (and maybe others) have been able to at least increase the max RPM for quite some time, but this sounds like a whole different level of access to the ECM
     
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  6. morgdog

    morgdog Active Member

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    KMC powersports already did it….it's on Facebook. Side by side comparison showed very similar results (within 3hp) Overall consensus was if you have all the other stuff installed, keep it. If not, you now have an option to have just the ECU tuned without having all the other stuff added on and staying on the bike.
     
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  7. SPEEDFREAK

    SPEEDFREAK Well-Known Member

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    the two programs start fighting over timing and throttle position and air- fuel ratio..... etc.etc.
     
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  8. MRMAXX

    MRMAXX Well-Known Member

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    I guess you missed this....

    New Tuner?
     
  9. Jeb27

    Jeb27 Well-Known Member

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    I would think that one would remove the PCV & the Timing Wheel if the ECM were going to be used?
     
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  10. Ed E

    Ed E Member

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    Exactly. My 2016 XCT is stock except for pipes. I bought a PCV in preparation to use it in the traditional manner, then sold it when the ECM tuners became available. I am scheduled with Kyle in May for cams/tuner/dyno. Kyle did indicate another brand of ecm tuner might be available shortly...
     
  11. 105vegas

    105vegas New Member

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    I know in the diesel truck world the flash tuner was much much better and could do much more then the piggyback tuners . I'm sure there is going to be a learning curve on the new tuners . The PCV is the top dog at this time but I think in a year you wont be able to give them away because the flash will be the top dog . But that's just my thoughts from other industry's
     
  12. Half_Crazy

    Half_Crazy Well-Known Member

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    It's simply 2 ways to skin the same cat. You can use the timing wheel and PC-V or you can change the tune in the ECU. The results should be the same as far as power output and drivability. It's either tuned or it isn't.

    From what I understand, the ECU tune is written in a PowerVision unit and saved into the ECU. Then the PowerVision can be removed.

    There are advantages and disadvantages to both cat-skinning techniques. Admittedly, I have not been party to the ECU tuning method, but the shop here is doing it on Harleys too and they seem to like it. I imagine when Kyle is here in May I will find out more.

    It's not like there's anything wrong with using a PC to tune. This has been and remains a method to achieve a good tune. You can plug in a laptop and make changes (eliminate popping, add 'accelerator pump' fueling, take out a ping by retarding the timing in a couple of cells) where if you had an ECU tune you would have to return to the tuner for tweaks like that.

    I don't see a mass exodus away from PC-Vs coming for those who already have one and are happy with the tune, but the ECU tuning is probably going to get popular with people tuning NOW.
     
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  13. Rewindguy

    Rewindguy Active Member

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    Very good point HC! Remember when you assisted with mine - Kyle did the tune in Sturgis and the next spring bike started to ping bad in 5th and 6th - so if it was an ECM tune I would be screwed! Kyle is US and I am in Canada plus he is on East side of country and I am on West side. Your suggestions and a laptop and ping is gone! Not slagging Kyle but when I contacted him I was told " I stand by my tune", well that doesn't help me way out here!!! Same as when my Dobeck POS tuner started screwing up - send it back, send it back - well it went back 2 times and now is sitting on my work bench as a reminder of Customer Service. If it isn't serviceable where you live it really isn't a good option.
     
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  14. WeekendRider

    WeekendRider Member

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    I don't disagree with you on this subject, but I'm curious what your opinion is of the noticeable increase at low RPMs of the ECU vs. the PCV tune. The PVC's shortcoming is not being able to adjust the low RPMs whereas the ECU tune can do much better than the timing wheel.

    . Dyno.jpg
     
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  15. Half_Crazy

    Half_Crazy Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the chart Kyle posted on FB that shows gains from the ECU tune over the PC-V, I'm wondering how much of that comes from throwing timing at it? Once you get into some hot/humid weather, less than excellent fuel, or whatever is it gonna rattle like a paint can full of rocks?

    And if that happens, what can you do about it? If the ECU tune is done without a timing wheel or you having possession of the tuning device, it's not as easy as pulling timing out. As you found out, with a PC-V and wheel you have some options in this scenario.

    I'm glad it worked out for you.
     
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