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Indian vs. Victory?


notaharley said...
I would beg to differ--Victory specifically targeted Harley, and made no secret of it. Didn't you see all the "comparison videos" that Victory put on YouTube? There was no one else in their crosshairs. That said, I'm thrilled that they did not clone their style like the big 3 Japanese manufacturers. They have their own style. The problem is, HD guys either complain that they are being copied....or they tell me my Xroads is "too futuristic"--- the latter is what I hear the most. What if we stopped buying new cars because they were too modern....


As in cars, what is futuristic now will be the norm tomorrow.
Not all HD riders buy for the same reasons. Victory has appealed to those that care for performance, technology and engineering inovation. That group may include HD riders but also, Metric cruiser and touring riders. Indian will go after the Nostalgia Crowd be it HD or Metric, They are carving out the huge middle. I am very impressed with their marketing approach.

Never underestimate old age and treachery.
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The real question is will the Cross Country's sales be strong enough to float Victory for three more years. New paint and a different wheel or handle bar on a cruiser isn't going to do diddly squat. Over the last few years victory's cruisers have gotten worse, while Harley's have gotten better, and the new Indian is looking to be pretty good too. As it appears that Polaris is completely focused on Indian for now and the foreseeable future I don't see any major changes or improvements coming to Vic any time soon. So, let's just guess that in 3-5 years Indian is up and running. They have multiple models/platforms, and they're selling as fast as they can make them. Meanwhile Victory has remained profitable on strong XC sales. In that case I bet by then Victory has it's own R&D and we start seeing new and better stuff. OR...After being ignored for 3-5 years Vic's sales have dwindled below profitability. What then, dump a bunch of investment into the brand, or shut it down and use the line to increase Indian production....
100" Kingpin, 110 hp 114 tq
110" Vision, 128 hp 130 tq

you guys realize that other than Polaris being the primary bank for all 3 companies (Vic, Polaris and Indian) they all have their own funding, engineers, etc. I work for a company that is owned by a much larger corporation that owns many many other large companies. we do our own work completely seperate of those other companies and we have our own funding and technology. We dont even have shared events. The only thing that all the companies have in common is the same parent company, 401k and medical insurance. other than that we are step brothers raised by different parents.

Victory will be fine and continue to progress regardless of what Polaris, Indian, Harley or your 1/2 brothers second cousins sisters aunts nephew is doing. Santa, the Easter bunny, Tooth fairy, Snuffleupagus and anybody else doesnt have anything to do with it either.

Harley Davidson: The most efficient way to turn gasoline into noise without the side effect of producing horsepower.

can't see all the fuss about vic,indian or hd. Even if indian took off,how many bikes could  they produce and look at the dealer network. Vicers know how small our network is. One dealer for every 50 hd dealerships. Folks buy bikes where they find a dealer and showrooms and service. Few dealership network, fewer bikes sold period. So I don't worry about who targets whom. Its all a mythical battle at this point


bobbyd85 said...

you guys realize that other than Polaris being the primary bank for all 3 companies (Vic, Polaris and Indian) they all have their own funding, engineers, etc. I work for a company that is owned by a much larger corporation that owns many many other large companies. we do our own work completely seperate of those other companies and we have our own funding and technology. We dont even have shared events. The only thing that all the companies have in common is the same parent company, 401k and medical insurance. other than that we are step brothers raised by different parents.

Victory will be fine and continue to progress regardless of what Polaris, Indian, Harley or your 1/2 brothers second cousins sisters aunts nephew is doing. Santa, the Easter bunny, Tooth fairy, Snuffleupagus and anybody else doesnt have anything to do with it either.



Greg Brew is head of the Industrial Design department at Victory. Michael Song is the lead designer at Victory. Guess who is responsible for all the design and development of Indian? Yep, Greg Brew and Michael Song. How do I know this? Steve Menneto, Polaris VP in charge of MOTORCYCLES introduced them as such.
100" Kingpin, 110 hp 114 tq
110" Vision, 128 hp 130 tq
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iabob said...
The real question is will the Cross Country's sales be strong enough to float Victory for three more years. New paint and a different wheel or handle bar on a cruiser isn't going to do diddly squat. Over the last few years victory's cruisers have gotten worse, while Harley's have gotten better, and the new Indian is looking to be pretty good too. As it appears that Polaris is completely focused on Indian for now and the foreseeable future I don't see any major changes or improvements coming to Vic any time soon. So, let's just guess that in 3-5 years Indian is up and running. They have multiple models/platforms, and they're selling as fast as they can make them. Meanwhile Victory has remained profitable on strong XC sales. In that case I bet by then Victory has it's own R&D and we start seeing new and better stuff. OR...After being ignored for 3-5 years Vic's sales have dwindled below profitability. What then, dump a bunch of investment into the brand, or shut it down and use the line to increase Indian production....


My understanding was that Indian, by design, had it's own R&D staff. Polaris did not want bleedover from one line to the other.
I think Victory's next step is a major change in the Vision in order to capture more market share from dedicated full blown touring riders from Goldwing and BMW who may be looking looking for an American made alternative. I would also like to see a fixed frame mounted fairing option for the XC. 
For the  younger buyers, a core sport cruiser and a sports tourer to appeal to the riders outgrowing they're sportsbikes with leading edge perfomance and handling and comfort for two.
The rest of the tube frame cruisers can come from Indian.

Never underestimate old age and treachery.

    imo, victory went full throttle on advertising, focusing on there strongest asset, the bikes comfort and ergonomics. " ride one and you'll on one " and it worked, they made a small name for themselves in the motorcycle community ( most people out there don't have a clue about them ). in this tanked economy many of there nice models just turned out to be eye candy,,, unfortunate but timing is everything , theres just not enough demand or money out there for these machines to fly off the shelves. us victory owners know  if every mc company started out at the same time victory would be way ahead of them all but thats just not the case, with established companies and much of the demand met i don't think vic will become a huge player, not in my life time. besides they just don't have the infrastructure. did i mention i love my vision ,,, its probably the last bike i'll ever own !  oh , and indian will always be about the same,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,   it's an " INDIAN " .

Last update on June 25 2013, 9:10 am by mister-g.
dream turned to reality. blue 2012 vision. Happy ! previous bikes: 04 honda vtx 1800n, 80 honda cb 900 custom , 77 kawasaki 350 enduro

iabob said...
Greg Brew is head of the Industrial Design department at Victory. Michael Song is the lead designer at Victory. Guess who is responsible for all the design and development of Indian? Yep, Greg Brew and Michael Song. How do I know this? Steve Menneto, Polaris VP in charge of MOTORCYCLES introduced them as such.


how much time could they possibly spend on design and development on an Indian? they have looked the same for 40 years! and just because all of the hard work of the actual research and development teams (which are different between Victory and Indian) crosses their desk for approval doesnt mean squat. They are paper pushers.

Harley Davidson: The most efficient way to turn gasoline into noise without the side effect of producing horsepower.

nevercrywolf said...


 Folks buy bikes where they find a dealer and showrooms and service. Few dealership network, fewer bikes sold period.




This is true. In AZ i see multiple Vics everyday. I see atleast 3 in my work parking lot daily. I park next to a XC that looks just like mine. Ive been in Cali for 2 months and ive seen 1 XR. this morning on the way to work. People ask me what kind of bike i have and i tell them Victory here and nobody knows what it is. I wear Victory Motorcycle shirts and people ask me what a Victory is. But AZ has 5 Vic dealers that i can think of off the top of my head. I ride in a group now and then and 1/2 the bikes are Vics with a couple HDs and the rest Jap bikes. they all have something in common. they all want a Vic! haha

Harley Davidson: The most efficient way to turn gasoline into noise without the side effect of producing horsepower.
Ironman said...



My understanding was that Indian, by design, had it's own R&D staff. Polaris did not want bleedover from one line to the other.
I think Victory's next step is a major change in the Vision in order to capture more market share from dedicated full blown touring riders from Goldwing and BMW who may be looking looking for an American made alternative. I would also like to see a fixed frame mounted fairing option for the XC. 
For the  younger buyers, a core sport cruiser and a sports tourer to appeal to the riders outgrowing they're sportsbikes with leading edge perfomance and handling and comfort for two.
The rest of the tube frame cruisers can come from Indian.



A little over a year ago Polaris announced a huge (doubling) expansion of it's R&D facility in MN. This WILL enable seperate staff going down the road but there has not been a seperate staff to design this brand new motorcycle from the ground up in 2.5 years. Think about this, what has come out of Victory since they announced the purchase of Indian? Sheet metal and parts bin swaps. Meanwhile they went from blank paper to brand new bike in 2.5 years for Indian. Greg Brew and Michael Song (and staff) did that according to the VP of motorcycles who commended them for doing such an outstanding job on the Indian.
I would love nothing more than to see a Vision with a drivetrain to take on Goldwing and K1600 GTL's, and this not so young buyer would jump all over a production model CORE. I too hope this is the direction Vic goes but we have a rule in sales. 80% of your profits come from 20% of your customers. If, as a salesperson, you split your time up evenly between all your customers you're limiting your profit by not spending your assets where they generate the greatest return. In the not too distant future a bean counter at Polaris will be looking at how much R&D dollars, marketing dollars, etc are spent on each brand and what the return on investment is on those dollars. Decisions have a tendency to get made based on those assesments.
100" Kingpin, 110 hp 114 tq
110" Vision, 128 hp 130 tq
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