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WARNING, Serious Safety Issue- Victory Vision


phoenix9 said...


Keith Grey, I am almost positive that the rear fender is made from HDPE (high densitiy polyethylene). It is chemically inert, which means that no chemical bonding agent will adhere to it long term....and I do mean nothing. The only way to fix it is to weld it. Not chemically weld it because you can't, but rather heat fusion weld it.....trust me, this is my world. I've worked with this material for 2 decades, and I've had contractors try every possible bond on the planet earth. It wont hold as soon as that fender is introduced to heat, cold, wet, and vibration.


 


Once a crack begins, then a 450 degree fusion weld is the ONLY way to stop it. Whatever your techs tell you, they will be wrong in the long term.....and by long term I mean give it one winter at the very best.



phoenix9, What would be the best way to make a fusion weld?



 

2009 Vision Blue Ice Tour

Thomas said...


 


phoenix9, What would be the best way to make a fusion weld?



 



Thomas, first to answer your question, all you really need is heat (~400 to 450 degrees) and "virgin polyethylene". When I say you need virgin material, you can get to that stage by scrapping the material until you see the raw material underneath.Heating it will remelt the material and once HDPE cools, the new melt is equally as strong as it was when it came out of the mold.


If I was doing this weld, I would scrape it down, clean it with isopropyl acohol, and then use a Munch gun (welding gun with HDPE rod) and weld it....then I would take a grinder out and grind down the weld. This will take it back to 100% perfect....actually stronger.......BUT.....you still have a fender made out of the older resin cell classification and it WILL crack again. It is called "slow crack growth".


If it was my Vision, even with all the equipment I have, I would go out and get the newer fender. The new resins will withstand the vibrations much better and should last for a long long time.....personally, this is why I think Victory should be replacing these for everyone with the older fender.

State map2012 by phoenix9 VisitedMexicanStatesMap by phoenix9



QUALITY over speed. Doing a crappy job fast is worthless, so take pride in your work as so few do these days. If you want to lose respect, then act like your work doesn't matter.

Thomas,


If you want to do a garage repair, watch this video. I can tell you without question, that this guy's weld will fail pretty quick (mainly because he didn't prep the area), but at least it gives you the "Mcgyver fix".



In the video you will hear him say "when this stuff heats up you lose material", which is very true. What he didn't realize is that black bucket he used to fill it up with water.....is also made out of HDPE. He could have cut off a piece of material from teh bucket and used it to fill the void left by the melted material....of course as I said, there is no substitute for prepping (scrapping and cleaning) the material before welding.

Last update on August 13 2012, 9:25 am by Andy.
State map2012 by phoenix9 VisitedMexicanStatesMap by phoenix9



QUALITY over speed. Doing a crappy job fast is worthless, so take pride in your work as so few do these days. If you want to lose respect, then act like your work doesn't matter.

Hey phoenix9,


I don't have a Vision, but I read how some folks are thinking of drilling more holes to rivet reinforcement to the fender.  Please correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that weaken the material more.  


It's good to have folk's from various industries around here to provide real world info.

Creek_IP said...


Hey phoenix9,


I don't have a Vision, but I read how some folks are thinking of drilling more holes to rivet reinforcement to the fender.  Please correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that weaken the material more.  


It's good to have folk's from various industries around here to provide real world info.



You are correct. The additional holes will both reinforce the fender in the short term, but also weaken the material further. If you look at the picture above, the cracks are beginning to spiderweb out from the original hole. Those cracks will eventually find the new holes....then those new holes will begin to have their own new spiderweb cracks.

State map2012 by phoenix9 VisitedMexicanStatesMap by phoenix9



QUALITY over speed. Doing a crappy job fast is worthless, so take pride in your work as so few do these days. If you want to lose respect, then act like your work doesn't matter.

phoenix9 said...


Thomas,


If you want to do a garage repair, watch this video. I can tell you without question, that this guy's weld will fail pretty quick (mainly because he didn't prep the area), but at least it gives you the "Mcgyver fix".



In the video you will hear him say "when this stuff heats up you lose material", which is very true. What he didn't realize is that black bucket he used to fill it up with water.....is also made out of HDPE. He could have cut off a piece of material from teh bucket and used it to fill the void left by the melted material....of course as I said, there is no substitute for prepping (scrapping and cleaning) the material before welding.



phoenix9, Thank you for the plastic welding tips. I have a Weller Soldering gun model 8200, going to look for a special soldering tip like one of these.



Also thinking of getting a black fender washer and melting it in place. I know you discussed additional bolt holes. I'm still thinking of adding a couple extra bolts on the top part of the fender for more support, not next to the cracked area. 


Plus I called the Victory dealer, talked to the service/parts manager. He thought something was up with the rear front fender half because he was showing a new part number unavailable until 8/24.  Could be a possible factory manufacturing change and wouldn't you know it, all cosmetic body panels which includes the rear front fender half are not covered under warranty.

2009 Vision Blue Ice Tour

If you can get your hands on some HDPE washers, that could work very good. Your soldering guns may not carry what we would consider enough heat, but they will do the trick, especially if you can couple it with a hot air gun.....our electrofusion guns have a conbination tip premelting the HDPE rod and also blasting hot air onto the surface. 


Remember, scrape the surface clean until you get rid of the top layer of HDPE (not much, just the surface) as that top layer has oxidation in it that acts like impurities and weakens the weld. Right before you weld, wipe with Isopropyl alcohol to get rid of any dirt or oils....then heat and weld. If you could add those HDPE washers then the hole will tough as nails.


If you were close by I would weld t for you....and it would NEVER crack ever again.


Good luck.

Last update on August 14 2012, 1:40 am by phoenix9.
State map2012 by phoenix9 VisitedMexicanStatesMap by phoenix9



QUALITY over speed. Doing a crappy job fast is worthless, so take pride in your work as so few do these days. If you want to lose respect, then act like your work doesn't matter.
The part number for the piece on the front fender is 5436458. The dealership shows that it is back ordered until August 24

bigfoot said...


 


We certainly don't want the government getting involved in this.


Businesses will police themselves. 


 


Unfortunately, corporate greed takes over and businesses rarely police themselves.   I'm not sure which is worse - corporate greed or gov't intervention - both are bad in their own realm.


 


 



__________________________________________________
LIFE IS TOUGH - IT'S EVEN TOUGHER IF YOU'RE STUPID

2005 Kingpin

Here is a quick and easy solution to the problem, all-be-it an expensive one, from Kewl Metal Products!


http://www.kewlmetalstore.com/product_info.php?cPa...


I was at my Vic dealer recently and I took a moment to check the rear fender on a brand new 2013 Vic Vision on the showroom floor, and it looks like the same cheap piece of plastic that I have on mine. It is the same composition and no more flexible in my opinion. When my dealer tried to order a replacement for my bike back in July they were told there is a supply issue with the manufacturer and the part would not be available until August 24th. Is this because they recognised the problem and were redesigning the fender, or was it just an excuse to allow the manufacturer more time to get out of Dodge and change their name and product line?

ManWithAVision